Theoretical scenario: If I am smarting off or being impatient with my husband, and then he spanks me, but then I just go on fairly soon back to the same behavior, doesn't that mean that whatever we're doing isn't working? If this dd thing is working for the reasons we set it up to be, I would think I would be getting less spankings...... wouldn't I? *Looks around
* Wouldn't you?
Of course, this brings out the obvious: that many of us are spankos. But, are we specifically choosing dd (and sometimes calling it ttwd) so that there are almost always spankings? How can spanking be both the punishment and the reward? I think this has been part of my own internal struggle. For those of us who have things other than spanking or in addition to it that we desire and/or that "pushes our yummy buttons," I still ask the same question. How can action by the dominant partner be administered and then received by the submissive as both the punishment and the reward?
I understand that some have their dynamic set up where there is such thing as a reward type spanking. But, for me, it can never be a reward because that doesn't fit in my ideal headspace. It would fit nicely in the D/s area just like it used for me before I stumbled upon an area of opinion on the internet and led me into thinking classic dd was the only way to have the spanking thing work as discipline. Looking back over my blogging years, I was and still am wanting to explore my submissiveness, but I was sometimes embarrassed around others (virtually) by that label because I learned not every wife associates spanking with submission (although I don't see how that is even possible unless it's only "play.") Obviously dd is a label, too, but it was the very one that many of us were trying to find our place in, so there was a community that seemed to accept mainly that.
It's my own fault for feeling influenced by statements such as, "My partner would never hurt me (punish). Spank me, yes." Huh? First of all, semantics. Second, if the spanking doesn't hurt, then no wonder why we keep going back to it. We aren't intimidated by it. It isn't a deterrent. Because it's a kink? Apparently one that is more about the idea of spanking, being told to bend over, and a bit of the feels of the physical impact sometimes followed by sex, which is fine, but for some of us it is not the complete answer.
Even if it truly hurts enough or is just slightly more than one prefers, overall it still seems like a rewarding situation. Or could it simply be the cycle of being disciplined for reasons established ahead of time, accepting one's punishment, and then cashing in the rewards of the whole dynamic? If spanking is NOT a kink for you, then that is or can be a whole different ball game with a new set of rules. I think.
In his book, Spank Her!, the late great Devlin O'Neil offers some insight:
"There might be a girl who needs very much to be spanked, but who would never ask for such a thing. She may, however, go to great lengths to find a man who can satisfy that need, and then do whatever it takes to let him know what she requires. These are often girls who give themselves to one man only, and then only when he proves he will come and get her, then do whatever is necessary to sort her out. This girl desperately needs boundaries, and at the same time she will fight desperately against having any such boundaries imposed. Only when this man has shown her, usually by spanking her bottom hard and making her listen to him when he tells her that she has no choice but to accept the boundaries he thinks best for her, will she accept that he is in charge and come to him fully. She accepts this change of attitude gratefully, if not always graciously, but is the sort of girl who easily forgets the lessons of the past, so that he must repeat them often. She does not forget these lessons because she is stupid, but because it is too easy for feelings of insecurity to cloud her judgment, for her to lose that sense of his presence if she is not actually in his arms or across his lap, and for her to want to push the boundaries again, just to see if he is still there to..."
Hmm. I think there are many angles to look at this. What's your angle? Please share with me.
Hi Windy, a very interesting dilemma for us spankos and something I think we all ask ourselves. I'm not sure there is any real answer, it just works.ReplyDelete
Although I am a spanko, when a spanking is for punishment/discipline it's a different story. I don't want or enjoy the spanking, at least in the moment. Any enjoyment is in retrospect and the lasting effects of the spanking.
I think it's tied in with the emotions involved when it comes to discipline. It's a totally differeint mindset to spanking for fun.
Hi, Roz! Retrospective enjoyment, eh? I get that. Thanks. Hugs, WindyDelete
I could write a dissertation on this and still not be able to cover it all. Nick would often ask, "If you love spanking, how can it be a deterrent?" To which I usually wanted to answer, "Just shut up and spank." But I never did. There is such a wide range of spankings - fun and silly, sexy, fantasy, role play, reconnection, maintenance, warning and punishment and probably several I've left out. I used the analogy of a meal. All I ended up with was dessert(fun fluffy spankings.) Now I love dessert, but I wanted a real meal - meat, potatoes, veggie the whole thing.ReplyDelete
I guess for me what made a spankings real was Nick's attitude. He didn't need to be mad or anything, just seriously discuss what he felt should change and then give a good spanking to make the discussion stick.
I'll hush before I feel another book coming on.
Hi, PK! Yes, the husband's attitude sets the tone and if it isn't there or is too light, doesn't do much, does it?Delete
Thanks for sharing. Hugs, Windy
A very interesting conversation. I have little to add as my experience is so limited. We play from time to time, but not since before the pandemic because there is rarely a time when we are both alone in the house. Discipline lives only in my fantasy. I don't have a label for what we do or a label for what I imagine I would like for us to do in our relationship dynamic. I do think we all have different needs, different expectations, different ways of responding to certain situations, and different tolerance levels...so in essence everyone needs to do what works for them. The trickier question is what does that mean and for that I have no answer...I am still figuring it out in my mind. I tend to be self disciplined - if my husband set out a rule for me I would probably follow it without any need for a spanking...so a spanking would need to be playful, sexy, stress relief, or motivational - not necessarily discipline. Though discipline fantasies are what I imagine most. Now I just babbling... :-) So on that note, I will say good bye and thanks for the discussion.ReplyDelete
Hi, Terps! Privacy is huge, isn't it? That was a very frustrating thing for us as well for a long time. Thankfully, now, we have a bit more time to ourselves. For now. lolDelete
I agree with the different needs and tolerance levels. You're self disciplined, eh? I think our guys think that we don't deserve to be disciplined for most things that we think we should....so they don't recognize it or aren't used to seeing us a naughty. Or something. Who knows? I don't have the answers either, obviously.
I wish you some private time with your man for more reasons than just possible spanking! Hugs, Windy
Hi! :-) I should have been more specific...I am self disciplined in terms of anything that my husband would care about. There are PLENTY of things I need to work on (healthy eating, exercise, etc) but these are things that for me, would not benefit from discipline via a spanking and really have to come from me and my own desire to be healthy. Thank-you for the good wishes...yesterday, we went out for a lovely lunch together...just he and I and it was very nice. :-) Take care!Delete
I think I took it the right way in that you're a self-disciplined person, not that you discipline yourself. Sorry if I was confusing. I don't think I am good at taking care of myself but I hope I take care of most of the things Storm cares about! Oh, I am so glad to hear you and your hubby finally had some time alone together! Happy for you! Hugs, WindyDelete
Yes the big spanking dilemma, if you are turned on by the idea of spankings for discipline. That excerpt from Dev's book does resonate with me. I don't have much experience and have never lived with someone since becoming honest about my desires. I would imagine it is different when you are sharing a home.ReplyDelete
I don't like letting someone down or making them angry if I care about them. When I have had a spanking for something I felt bad about, I've hated it at the time,not wanted to repeat it, and been massively turned on afterwards thinking about it! However it did stop me mentally beating myself up, which is something I tend to do, left to myself.
The ideal for me would be to have things I'm working on improving on, but which I'm not going to suddenly do perfectly. The spanking would get me back on track and feel meaningful without me having to behave badly to get it. That kind of accountability has always appealed to me and that kind of spanking would turn me on more than the playful kind, though a spanking for stress relief definitely helps too.
Hey, Alice! Well, you summed a lot of this up with your first statement. Guess I didn't need to use so many words. LOLDelete
Not liking it during and then later getting turned on about it makes it more "punishment received" and then cashing in on benefits of the dynamic (getting turned on). The "later" separates enough so that it isn't a reward.
I need to think about things that I want to improve on regarding myself.....not sure I want Storm in my business when it comes to that. LOL I don't know though, the more concrete the rule, the better he can see it clearly if I break it ....... the lines get blurry here. Grrr.
I do see benefits for stress relief spanking. I think that could work for me IF I could get over having to ask for it. I have a hang up, I think, about that! Thanks for sharing your ideas here, Alice. I appreciate the back and forth with something to chew on! :) Hugs, Windy
Okay, wish me luck. I no longer have a computer so typing on the phone it is. Sigh.ReplyDelete
I made notes so I'm just going to go with more bullet point thoughts (I think lol).
For the first part about punishment/ reward. I have found, and this isn't just my personal finding but those of many who came before, that if the spanking handed out is not thorough enough, meaning I haven't actually stopped fighting it and have surrendered, all that adrenaline that, fight or flight mode if you will gets clicked on and it comes back rather quickly after the main event. So rather than staying calm after all these other chemicals are buzzing around and it tends to end up not being so great a little while later again.
I wouldn't say other forms of discipline push my yummy buttons. Often I am annoyed by them. Who wants their electronic taken away, have to write an essay or lines...etc? *BUT* often these alternate punishments are more effective in removing my shield- perhaps because there isn't any adrenaline involved- but there is a significant amount of my time taken away. I often am left unguarded and humbled.. this in turn allows my authentic self to surface and see B in the light I wish to. The reward is accomplishing these tasks and the feeling of being lighter and just 'as I am'
As for the ' My husband won't hurt me'. The quote is actually ( not correcting you- but them so maybe it will make more sense to you) My Dom/husband won't HARM me. He's definitely going to hurt you! Lmao...
Better stop here because I'm probably too long for blogger aleeady
Hey, Willie! I'd be screwed if I had to use my phone. I am MUCH better with a full keyboard, as you know!Delete
Yes, if it isn't a tough enough of a spanking, it leaves me frustrated in many ways.
I have heard the quote about harm versus hurt, and that makes sense to me. What I meant was I got the impression the person's spankings weren't all that intense (subjective, I know. Different tolerance levels, I get it.) The person didn't want to be harmed (good), but I don't get the spanking not hurting, at least not one where we are supposed to be in trouble. Doesn't make sense to me and wouldn't work for me.
Okay where was I ?
For me a spanking is an exclamation point to Barney's feelings on the matter at hand. It in itself has never been a deterrent. Not that they don't hurt. BUT I am an emotional creature and in moments where I am less than submissive it is because I am upset and often not in my submissive Heartset. In the past B has said that he knows something else has gone wrong if I have broken a rule or expectation. If you remember that post of mine about the submissive bullseye? I've moved away from it- and often he would take the blame that he didn't notice and bring me back ( or you know say I moved too quickly away. Lmao)
Him disciplining me in those cases is 'proof' if you will, that he wants me to live my authentic life. Proof that he wants me to make safe choices physically and perhaps more importantly - emotionally. What more of a reward could a wife want? But a husband who stands up for her, even if it's TO her! Lol
All this sounds so remarkably , fantastic doesn't it? Lol. You know it is so much work, lots of tears and misunderstanding, lots of stumbles and days where it just doesn't seem like it will work or return- but those days that are good are worth every sh*t one that led up to it.
My hope is that some day women out there will stop throwing the word 'submissive' out like it's a horrible thing. Maybe it's not their cup of tea, or they can't / won't identify with it- but I think some have no idea how they come across to those who are trying to find themselves when they say, " Well I'm NOT submissive" unused to think I wasn't either until a good friend laughed at me when I said so ( also not a great response- but you'd have to know him. Lol). Whatever you identify with is obviously more than fine. There is no need to say what you do not identify as. Lol
Okay I've said more than enough
A husband that stands up TO her as well as for her. Love it! Yep! My guy misses too much, in my opinion. I know I'd spank my ass for lots more than he does if I were him!Delete
I'm glad you're in on this crazy ttwd ride along with me....makes me feel less crazy and dumb for wanting those good good days if there have to be so many bad ones in order to get there! LOL
I like this: "There is no need to say what you do not identify as." Kind of like approaching a buffet and pointing out everything you don't like instead of just choosing what ya do like, eh? LOL
You always give me lots to think about and things to reexamine or re-frame for myself. Thanks for your insight and honesty. Hugs, Windy
"So before we judge what someone likes to put in their butt, maybe we should remove the giant stick out of our own." Well, there goes the first mouthful of my nice hot coffee... Certainly agree with this statement!ReplyDelete
And I think Willie said the rest so well that I don't need to say another word.
I'm feeling a little sorry for myself that hit the kill switch on my blog. I do so hate being left out of all the conversations and there's been a lot of great posts lately that have been making my thinking wheels turn.
Hi, Penelope! I am dying laughing at you spitting your coffee at that comment. Yay! hahaha Just so you know, you commented on the punishment and reward post and not the How Low Can you Go one, so if you want to copy and paste it and put it over there, you can. Would love for everyone to see what you are saying.Delete
Did you take your blog down or it was removed? That is scary if you didn't do it. I"m so sorry. Either way, you can always hang out and comment here....I am really trying to get discussions going. I'm trying to be more active on other's blogs as well when it has some d/s meat and potatoes to it! So glad to see you here! Hugs, Windy